Arno Michaelis
Is extremism a public health issue? Kimi sits down with former neo-Nazi skinhead, Arno Michaelis, to discuss his transformative journey from spreading hate to advocating for compassion and forgiveness. Arno shares candidly about his recruitment into white nationalism, the pivotal role his family played, and the life-changing moments that led him out of the movement. He provides insight into the underlying pain fueling such ideologies and stresses the importance of embracing those seeking to leave hate behind. The conversation delves into Arno's commitment to anti-racism work, his hopes for the future, and the ongoing challenge of self-forgiveness. Join us in this episode to understand the human capacity for change and the potency of kindness in breaking the cycle of violence.
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In this episode:
The Evolution of Skinhead Culture
White Nationalism and Ideological Influence
Racial Identity Persuasion Tactics
Processing Trauma and Avoiding Extremism
Overcoming Hate with Friendship
Fostering Hope through Daily Kindness
LINKS & RESOURCES:
Instagram: @arnomichaelis
Book: My Life After Hate
Charity: www.parents4peace.org
Wise Words:
What attracted me to white nationalism when I encountered it as a 16 year old drunk punk rocker was that it so repulsed civil society. It just seemed like my whole life I was looking for the best way to piss people off.
I think my addiction to lashing out was like my gateway drug to alcohol and then the alcohol became another gateway drug to the hate and they certainly did co-present and exacerbate each other. The more I drank, the more I needed that thrill of lashing out.
When I was a white power skinhead and recruiting, I had this archetype I call Joe pissed off white kid.
And that's when the exploiting the pain came in.
That's at the point where I would try to find out what's going wrong in Joe pissed off white kid’s life. Eight times out of 10, then as it is now, Joe pissed off white kid is pissed off cause he doesn't have a girlfriend. And back in those days, rather than being pissed off, Joe pissed off white kid's friends say, “Hey, why don't you try taking a shower once in a while, quit drinking all the time, study, work out, like make yourself into someone that someone might be attracted to”.
That's what I would have said had I cared about Joe pissed off white kid, but instead of giving him practical advice that was very difficult to follow. It's not easy to change your lifestyle and change your habits and look in the mirror and say, what can I do to improve my life? That's very difficult.
So instead of doing something that would help him, I say, no, you know why you don't have a girlfriend, Joe Pissed Off White Kid? Because the Jews put Michael Jordan on all these billboards and magazine ads and TV commercials to corrupt the minds of white women, to make them think that these savages are the ideal man and you're not.
And now Joe pissed off white kid’s eyes are lighting up because now he has an easy excuse. He has an easy out to his problems.
People are like, I'm not going to be swayed by your hostility. I'm going to demonstrate for you how human beings should treat each other.
And I'm going to do so by being kind to you, even when I know you hate me.
I loved the Beastie Boys before I became a skinhead. Obviously, as a skinhead, you can't listen to a bunch of Jews doing black people music.
I was embraced and forgiven by all sorts of people that I would have attacked just a couple of years earlier.
Our society now is like, well, we need to punish racists. We need to silence them. We need to reject them. We need to ostracize them as if we can make them suffer more. We'll make them less hateful and violent. Which I don't agree with whatsoever.
It's my hope that we can make that same paradigm shift. While we're addressing hate and violent extremism in our society and get to a point where we understand that it's a disease that's affecting somebody and that they have all the capability in the world to leave that hate behind and become not only a productive citizen in our society, but the amazing human being they've meant to be all along.
I realized self-forgiveness was possible. And once I realized the possibility of it, it became much easier to realize.
I can honestly say, “Hey, I'm a good person. I deserve to be loved. I deserve to be happy. I deserve to be successful.” And, 15 years ago I could not have gotten those words out of my mouth.
Just as no one is ever going to beat the Nazi out of me, we're not going to like violence our way to a more peaceful society. We have to keep connecting with those noble human qualities that really make the human experience so beautiful. We can't lose sight of that.